Michael Fishman is an advisor to leading health personalities, founder of The Consumer Health Summit, and speaker on marketing, messaging, and growth strategies for business.
In this episode, we chat about wealth, mindset, and the “healthy restlessness” of ambition.
I loved how he described honoring yourself for a job well done as ROI for his mindset.
I also asked him about boundaries, one of my favorite topics. In typical Fishman-fashion, this just rolls off his tongue:
“When loving someone is tantamount to not loving yourself, that’s a relationship with a gross imbalance of energy.”
Mindie: Welcome back my friends to another episode of The Lucrative Society. I am delighted to have my friend Michael Fishman with me here today. Michael, welcome to the show.
Michael: Hi Mindie, it’s an honor to be here. Thank you.
Mindie: You are most welcome. I am excited that we finally get to have this conversation, I know you’ve been on my list for quite a long time. I wanted to begin with just kind of the concept of this show. Myself, in my own life, I have had a lot of challenges with money, and money mindset and all this, which really inspired the creation of this show. I wanted to ask you about your wealth evolution, if you could just bring me back, like, where did you start? You know, like, what was growing up for you like with money? And then, lead me up until today and your thoughts on money.
Michael: Wow. Awesome. You know, I don’t know if you announce it to your listeners, but we don’t, like we didn’t talk about this in advance so, this is kind of fun, we’re on the high wire, right?
Mindie: I like putting people on that.
Michael: So, I grew up in Queens, in New York City, in a two-bedroom apartment with my parents and my brother, my brother and I shared a bedroom. You know, I think by any description, a modest environment. There really wasn’t a lot of discussion about money, I don’t– I’ve never known what my parents earned, and to this day, I don’t. I know how they live, I can see and experience how they live, and you know, as their means increased, you know, having a second home or being able to eat out more. I mean, the kinds of things when I was a kid that you just know, things are getting better but it was, I would say a modest upbringing, like I said, not a lot of discussion, just the experience that was going on, which had a lot to do with scarcity, either real or perceived. And, you know, went to college, my parents paid for my university tuition so, you know, I didn’t– I graduated without any student debt. And I worked a summer job during college, really just because I wanted to, so that, you know, obviously things got easier at that time, more so than for a lot of people. And then, in my career, you know, always had a sense, I mean, and even as I started working in the early and mid-80’s, I was reading Money Magazine, and I had a sense of, that it was important to save and compounded interest and mutual funds and to get my arms around the tools and the methods and the commitment that it would take to have that be a meaningful process. And to have, you know, to have savings and also too, you know, over the years also, and we’re friends and you’ve seen this, but I’ve made certain choices that some might have said were expensive, or you know, call it, say costly, that, you know, sometimes you want to honor yourself, sometimes you want to make a choice not to impress anybody else, but to honor or pamper or acknowledge yourself for a job well done, or a lot of years of hard work or the fruition of a particular goal. And so, you know, there have been times where I bought a luxurious car, just because I expected to have return on investment on it, just in my own mindset, just that I felt good that I accomplished it and it just was something that I allowed myself to do for me. So, I’m dancing around with the answer, but I hope that’s a good kick-off.
Mindie: So, let’s talk about your work now. What are you doing that has allowed you some of those luxurious cars or whatever other choices that you’ve made? I’d love for my listener to know a little bit more about your work.
Michael: Yeah. Well, thank you. Well, I mean, principally, two things. Number one, an advisory practice, which I’ve had my entire life and you know, in some different iterations, but I advise founders and depending on the size of the company, the founder and/or their marketing lead, and the categories are almost always something to do with health, nutrition, food, supplements, apps, wearables, the new technology and health, diagnostics, home testing, telehealth, those kinds of things. And then, I lead a founder community called Consumer Health Summit, which I created in 1994, that’s an invitational group of founders who really work with not only prowess and business acumen, but also purpose, and really deep heart, really deep calling to make the world a healthier and happier place. And also the kind of people that when they gather are really committed to the greater good and really are always wanting to help each other versus, you know, get things from each other and come into our gatherings like a hunter, but much more like a contributor. So, leading and curating that group and advising founders are the two principal things that I do.
Mindie: Would you be willing to share, and I get it that I’m sort of putting you on the spot by asking you this, but one of the things that I found so amazing with you was your work with Consumer Health Summit. Because I remember, at one point, this was just in the last couple of years, and somebody had told us or Sean had told me that there were X number of years until, I don’t remember if it was till it was even profitable, or what you had done, but I was like, “That is extraordinary.” So, I wonder if you could just share, and in as much detail as you’d like, that growth.
Michael: Yeah, I’ll try to address what it is you may be thinking of but the first two or three years, it was a private dinner for maybe 15 or 20 people in the mid 90’s. Well, here’s the thing, the first 10 iterations was always invitation only but the first 10 years, nobody paid. Because I was working for an agency and so, the agency sponsored it, paid for it, it was always Michael’s thing, it was never branded with me, but I always put it together and I always invited people and I always led the event and so forth, led to gathering. But the first 10 years, while it was invitation-only, there was no charge to attend but because it was so tightly curated, and admission was only offered, you know, to people that were a culture of business and a cultural fit for the group, it wasn’t like people showed up for free and didn’t care, right? They knew they were at something special. So, the first two or three years was a dinner and then we moved into kind of a one, you know, like a one-day gathering of speakers in programming, like from morning till the end of the afternoon. And we were probably in the 40 to 50% range at that time and there were many years where I thought 50 was like the absolute biggest this thing could ever get. Because it’s not a seminar, it’s a discussion, and you can’t have a discussion with 500 people, at least I don’t think you can. But you know, these days with zoom and breakouts, maybe. But so, it became a one day and then it became a two day and then at some point, after 10 years, we started charging, which I think was $600 for the very first time we ever charged, which is probably in the like late 90’s. And then, it became you know, people were clamoring for a second day so, we did two days.
So anyway, fast forward, it went from New Jersey to Connecticut to Paradise Valley, Arizona and, you know, we’ve pivoted and elevated the experience in so many wonderful ways, not only in terms of the community, but in terms of the experience and the hospitality and the venue. So, what started as an Invitational dinner for 15 or 20 people in 1994, various iterations and you know, today we have a beautiful community, a high alumni rate, a wonderful prestigious faculty, some of whom are recurring, that, you know, return year after year and, you know, pretty well known that you know, it’s a $10,000 investment to be there. And so, but as I say, and as you may have heard me say in the past, things are either valuable, or they’re expensive, it’s one or the other, right? So, if it’s valuable, irrespective of the price, it meant the experience or the tangible return on investment was there, right? So, you could pay $2,000 for an event and have it be a waste of time, you could pay a multiple of 10,000, many people charge way more than we do, you know, and that’s valuable. So, it’s not about the number, it’s just about the curation of the community, and having a group of generous people that have, not only the heart, but the ability to support each other.
Mindie: I love that. And it speaks volumes to you, as well as the leader, as the visionary of that experience, taking this small event and turning it into something that is, let’s just say a lot bigger than that, which is awesome.
Michael: And by the way, sorry, we do admit only 100 each year. So, there is I mean, I mentioned you know, “How do you have a conversation with 500 people?” before. I still don’t know how you do that, but we do limit our admissions to 100. So, we’re able to facilitate, I’m able to foster and facilitate, you know, beautiful discussions and that intimacy and that connection that just, you know, is what that type of gathering, and others like it, are really known for.
Mindie: Yeah. And you’re able to maintain that, at that level, which I think is awesome. So, let’s jump into the world of happiness. I’m looking at money, and wealth, and also happiness and saying, “How can we bring all this stuff together?” Sean and I used to joke all the time that there were a lot of wealthy people that we knew, or not necessarily wealthy, but they had a lot of money, and they were miserable. And then, the flip side was also true, people that were so filled with joy, but didn’t have a lot of money. So, we’re like, “How can we do both?” Because I’m fairly certain that that is possible, and probable, with the right mentors, resources, etc. So, for you in your life, what is happiness to you?
Michael: Yeah. It just, it brings to mind so many quotes, like, happiness is an inside job, which I think is accurate. You know, happiness isn’t, you know, is loving what you have, you know. So, there’s just so many people that have framed that and in many beautiful, valuable ways. Look, I think, I believe we can develop happiness to its truest and fullest expression and its fullest experience, and I think for every human being, the foundation of happiness, the foundation of the experiences of happiness, anything good, like joy, I think starts with being able to unplug or remove any frame of victimization that we may have from prior years of our life. Because if not, we’re walking around with a frame or a self-assessment, and look, everybody has their stuff, right? We know that. I mean, you know, somebody whose mother was five minutes late picking them up at school, that doesn’t sound tragic, but for that person that was, you know, that was meaningful, they made it mean something about them. And of course, there’s other things that happen that are terrible, unreal violations. But whatever those things are, for each person, it’s important to remove any frame of victimization, and really look at the event as an event and to strip away the meaning and the negative self-assessment and the kinds of things that become a part of the blueprint of virtually our entire life or the lens in front of our eyes, whatever metaphor you like, it’s your blueprint, it’s the lens’ on your eyes, it’s you know, an eye as men said, we don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are. So, you know, with respect to happiness, I think happiness, joy, all those wonderful experiences and feelings start with what I just described. And I think that’s the human race, that’s you know, we need to override the factory settings called our brain and get, you know, and get that degree of consciousness. And so, you know, once that happens, our creativity blossoms, our purpose blossoms, our, you know, our self-love can, you know, can develop over time. I don’t think these are overnight phenomenon, sometimes they are, but a lot of times it takes, you know, years to, you know, to acknowledge oneself, to fall in love with oneself, after you’ve stopped blaming, or assessing yourself in a negative frame, right? So, I think that’s the foundation and then happiness, just like success, gets defined by the individual. You know, I mean, for some people happiness is a concert or seeing art or hearing expression or being with somebody they love or being by themselves. You can relate to that, I know.
Mindie: What? Me? [Laughing]
Michael: You know, out in the desert, you’re on a mountain top, right? So, I think that’s different for every person, but you know, just getting quiet as my partnering language say, and really experiencing what is within you, unencumbered by that entire past that we hope never happens again, right? And then you know, happiness and other kinds of things that are wonderful begin to reveal themselves and begin to blossom.
Mindie: What are some of the specifics for you? I mean, you know, we joke about me being alone and being on a mountaintop which is 100% true. What are some of the ways like, when or where do you find yourself most happy?
Michael: Definitely with you know, with friends, you know, sharing experiences, sharing, not only triumphs and successes, but challenges, hearing and experiencing the self-expression of other people, whether that’s through music or art, you know, being the recipient of self-expression, words, music, art. You know, that, to me is, you know, the real oxygen in many respects is creativity, art and self-expression, I just love– I love that.
Mindie: I almost would add food to that, because I know that you and I have shared many, a really good, quality meal, oftentimes, and had that, you know, ability to converse and express and all that along with the food so, that would definitely be on my list.
Michael: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, we talked about, like, the money and the, over the course of time, you know, and for me, there’s also food over the course of time, and not just an appreciation of fine food and the ability to have it, you know, the wherewithal to sometimes go out and pay for it, but, or more than sometimes, you know, just emotional attachments to food, you know, and feeling particular emotions, you know, some pleasant, some not pleasant, and how those emotions relate to, you know, eating and the kinds of food that let’s say, I would reach for the time of day, like, why reach for something sweet? Why eat at midnight? Why do these various things, which, you know, are less than ideal? So, I think everybody, I certainly have a food journey, which, you know, which I’m working on all the time.
Mindie: Awesome. So, Michael, you came to mind recently for me, because I was teaching a class on boundaries, and somebody in the class asked a question, and the question was essentially about integrity. And he was saying, “Okay, if I have stated something, whatever that is. And then, maybe, however, long later, I find that maybe that’s not the best thing for me. What do I do? Because I did state that so, I want to be in integrity.”. But in the context of this boundary class, I was also talking about, you know, not tolerating people’s poor behavior and things like that. So, this guy was like, “What do I do?”, and you came to mind, because I know there have been, and we’ve had conversations about this, there have been situations in your life, where there was that struggle between the integrity of what you stood for and then also of what you knew you deserved. And I wondered, and you don’t have to go into any specific if you don’t want to, although I welcome you to if you choose to, how did you come to terms with that inner struggle of integrity, like what you had said, versus holding a boundary?
Michael: Well, it’s a wonderful question. Like, certain matters of integrity are black and white, like keeping your word. You know, if I say, “I’ll be there at two o’clock.”, and I’m there at 2:05, it might be tragic, might not be but you know, that’s a break of integrity, especially if I didn’t tell you in advance that there was any chance of a delay. You know, if I say I’ll do something, and I don’t do it, that’s a breach. If I say I won’t do it, and I do it, that’s a breach. Then, there’s an area of integrity, which would come under the heading of being true to yourself, that’s different than a factual breach, of time or a particular act or a particular behavior. So, being true to yourself is, you know, and look, you could say, “Well, I’m being true to myself when I, you know, knock people off their bicycle.”, well, that’s not a great thing to do, right? So, you know, there’s stuff that you could do to be true to yourself, that’s just plain out wrong, but you can appreciate, I know, that there’s, you know, under the heading of be true to yourself, there’s a lot of gray. And so, when you make– and stop me anytime I’m not answering the question, but when you do make a promise or make a commitment, there can be a time when that no longer serves you and there might not be anything egregious about it; it might just not serve you any longer or there could be something egregious like that, you know, there’s a party or a person that’s dishonoring you in some way, right?
So, you know, and without specific details, but I’ve been in situations, as you know where I’ve given my word and over time, that agreement turned into something that felt nourishing at the beginning and turned into a gross disservice to me. At which point, it’s being true to yourself, it’s honoring yourself and actually loving yourself to communicate that, like the discontinuation of that agreement or that commitment or whatever, you know, whatever action or behavior you promised to maintain, it’s then over. So, you don’t maintain commitments to your own significant detriment. I mean, look, people and their relationships, they committed at the beginning, and at some point, it wasn’t right anymore; it wasn’t the right thing. So, is that helpful?
Mindie: It is, and I want to go even just a little bit deeper, because I think that you have an answer based on your experiences that other people might be seeking and that is, and let’s just use a hypothetical example, let’s say somebody has committed in a marriage to, you know, till death do us part and then maybe there’s some abuse in that marriage. So then, the person has this inner struggle of like, “This is what I said. And I said that with integrity.”, but to your point, that’s also not clearly, not serving that person because they’re being abused, which, you know, nobody would say that’s a good thing. So, how did you, or how would one come to terms with that inner struggle? And how do you know when it’s black and white, or when it’s gray?
Michael: Yeah. Well, look, the test is different for every person, you know, the criteria would be different for every person. But I think in general, I mean, look, what I mean, here’s just something that most people can locate themselves inside of, when loving another person is– when loving someone is tantamount to not loving yourself, that’s a relationship with really a gross imbalance of energy or integrity, or you know, however you would say it. But the ability to look at oneself in the mirror and be proud of one’s choices, you know, in every area, you know, that your choices are excellent, that your choices are honoring you, you know, choosing a car is one thing, choosing a person is another, you know? And so, if you’ve made a choice of a person, whether that’s intimate, whether that’s business, whether that’s partnership, whatever, that relationship has to honor you as long as it lasts. And when it doesn’t, in whatever manner, and once again, it could be egregious, or it could just be a matter of two people can drift, right? There might not be anything, “wrong”. And like I said, I think most people can locate their life in this discussion in some way, some connection to another person, and, you know, it can be an affirmation of a relationship that you discontinued, and maybe still have some lingering guilt or negative feelings about, or it could be about a relationship that’s still in place that no longer serves you.
Mindie: I think that’s hugely helpful so, thank you for that.
Michael: Thank you.
Mindie: Yeah. So, there’s a four part question that I ask all of our guests, I think you know what this is because you’ve heard this show before. It’s called HERB, H-E-R-B, and the H, I would like to just take you through each part, the H is habits. What are some of your personal, specific habits that if we were to implement them as someone listening to you, we may be able to achieve some of the things that you can achieve?
Michael: Well, just I mean, a couple that are specific, like take supplements, take, you know, get someone to help you choose the right ones, right? But, you know, use you know, use supplements in your health routine, your health regimen, avoid gluten, dairy and sugar and processed foods, and hang around the side of generosity.
Mindie: Hmm, I love that.
Michael: Like, I recently decided that, you know, if I get a coffee or you know, something in a shop, no matter what it costs, the minimum tip is $2. So, it’s a $3 coffee, plus $2.
Michel: Because that’s a human being that took time and effort and maybe even their purpose to be of service to you, and it doesn’t break you and it acknowledges that a human being. So I think, you know, and there’s 100 ways you could hang on the side of generosity and it’s not always about– it’s mostly not about money, it’s about being, you know, a generous human being, and caring and being giving up oneself. So, I just, I think that’s a habit.
Mindie: I would think so, yeah.
Michel: Yeah, so those would be a few.
Mindie: I love that. One of the things that Sean and I always used to do, and now I’ve continued doing is when I go through the drive-thru at Starbucks, I say, “Hey, put on the person behind me, you know, on my tab.”, and it’s really kind of cute, because a lot of times the cashier will, like, especially if it’s maybe a bigger order, like not just a coffee, it’s maybe they had a sandwich too and they’re like, “Oh, it’ll be you know, $14.”, I’m like, “That’s okay, put it on there anyway.”, but it’s super cute. So, I love that. Thank you for that.
Michael: Yeah. The other thing is, you know, whether it’s a tip, like, let’s say, tip for a valet lady or gentleman who’s parking your car, whatever, if you don’t have the small bill, not their fault, if it’s a five or a 10, or a 20, that’s the tip; it’s never zero.
Mindie: I love that. Thank you. Thank you for being a model of that. So, from the H to the E, E stands for environment. How do you set up your environment for your best work, your best creativity, your best productivity, you know, what comes in or doesn’t come into your environment?
Michael: Yeah, well, I mix it up a little bit, because I’m fortunate enough to live in Scottsdale, Arizona, which is, you know, among other things, a resort town. So, there are beautiful resorts with open air lounges, and just beautiful places to sit and work and it’s peaceful, and it’s, you know, generally quiet and not generally crowded, especially during the hotter months. So, I really have the luxury, you know, how people sometimes put on Facebook, like, “This is my office this week.”, and you’re looking at the ocean. So, I have, you know, that’s a beautiful thing about where I live so, I really, I mix it up. So, when I pull out each morning, I just kind of give it a moment’s thought of like five or six options and I choose one. And so yeah, you know, and with, you know, when I’m doing video meetings, or meet, you know, meetings, you know, Zoom or Skype or those sorts of things, I find those tend not to work in those public environments for lots of obvious reasons. So, you know, I have a home office, and I can work with books behind me or you know, on videos, or a beautiful piece of art, or, you know, I have a couple of choices in my home environment as well.
Mindie: Nice. And I just, you know that I’m still celebrating your move to Scottsdale because Sean and I pushed hard for that, for a long time. When I met you, you were still on the east coast and we were both very excited when you headed our direction, that was awesome.
Michael: Well, I’m carrying the torch because I’m now the chief recruiter.
Mindie: I love that. And why not? You know, like, it’s such a great place. So, the R in HERB stands for resources. And one of the things that I like most about anybody that I meet is when somebody, they meet me, and then they give me books, and you did that. So, I was like, “I already adore this guy. I don’t know anything about him, but he’s already top of my list.”, because books are one of my favorite things on the planet. So, resources could be books, but they could be coaches, mentors, programs, courses, whatever else, what are some of the resources that have really developed you into who you are and that you would recommend to others?
Michael: Well, there are a few books, and I am happy to name a few but what I really cherish and value the most are quite a few individuals that I you know, that I’m blessed and grateful to have, you know, in what I would call my inner circle and just really dear friends, you know, the kind of people you can call at three in the morning or say like, “I need $1,000,” and it’d be like no questions, you know? I don’t think I’ve ever done either of those things, but I could, right? So, you know, just great people great, you know, relationships, I think are the real wealth, not because they lead to financial abundance, which they do, but because they are so much more meaningful, than anything to me. And also, groups, you know, I’m not in many groups, but many people know I’m in Joe Polish’s group and also leading and standing in front of my own group. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s an education and a nourishing experience to me as well, you know, I don’t take anything for granted, and certainly not the ability to stand in front of a roomful of rock stars and dignitaries, and just be knocked out. So, you know, the fact that I have a group doesn’t make me think I’m better and certainly never take it for granted. So, you know, the group that I lead, Consumer Health Summit, and Genius Network, and you know, just other informal gatherings, you know, there’s a wonderful author and educator and pretty well known guy in New York named Ramit Sethi, and when I lived in New York, he and I hosted a dinner series for two years. And so, you know, there was no agenda, we would split the bill every time, in 24 months, we did 22 dinners and at the end of the first year, we invited– the first year as a guest, we invited up to a party at the end of the first year and then at the end of the second year, we invited all two years of guests to a party and then we put a bow on top, and we looked at each other and said, “We think we’re done, we’re done with it.” But it was a moment in time, you know. So, there’s just so many special things that you cannot only belong to, with respect to people, but also create situations for yourself that are not only nourishing to you, but to everybody that participates. And so, you know, in terms of resources, for me, you know, people would be number one, you know, if I could recommend, you know, three books would be, You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay.
Mindie: 100% yes!
Michael: Setting the Table by Daniel Meyer, the subtitle of which is The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business, any business, and The Culture Code by Dr. Clotaire Rapaille.
Mindie: Awesome, thank you for that. You know, I’m always like, “Which books are you–” you know, I wouldn’t have let you not recommend some books so, I appreciate that.
Michael: I haven’t read as many, you know, a lot of people talk about the hundreds and thousands of books that they’ve read, I’m not in that club at all. And sometimes you know, it feels feel a little uncertain about that but you know, I have some books that have just made a massive difference in my thinking and in my relationships, and so, those would be three.
Mindie: Yeah, and those are the ones that I want to know about. So awesome. So, the B in HERB stands for beliefs. What are some of your core beliefs that allow you to see the world as you do, or allow you to assess the event? Anything. What are some of the core beliefs that make you who you are?
Michael: Another wonderful question. Thank you. Well, it’s funny, you know, the astronomer Neil Tyson recently shared a quote that was said, by Edgar Mitchell, who was an astronaut, for the United States Air Force, and I don’t remember what year, probably in the 70’s. And said something to the effect of, “When you go into space and look back at the earth, you don’t see borders, you don’t see divisions, you don’t see any of these sorts of artificial constructs that are all, you know, made by humans.”, and you know, when I go, when I’m on an airplane, even though not as high as the astronauts are, I remember that and I look down and just think about that. So, I think for me, you know, in terms of a belief, I mean, to the extent possible, I think we all live in one home called the earth. And it’s important to safeguard that, not only for ourselves, but for the people and the animals that will follow us. I also think what goes around comes around, you know, I believe in karma. I mean, I’m very science-oriented in many respects, like if you can show me in a lab or prove it or you know, like, in a scientific method, it’s hard for me to embrace but there are things that I do embrace that are just really areas of faith, and karma, and just the connectedness of all human beings would be, you know, a few of those. Yeah.
Mindie: Nice. I love that. Now, I also ask every guest to define wealth, your personal definition of wealth, and you said, relationships are the real wealth and I wonder if you can expand on that or add anything to that in terms of what is your personal definition of wealth?
Michael: Well, if we really look at what most people associate with wealth, which I do too, well, you know, not exclusively, but partly and significantly, it’s money. You know, money and wealth are in that respect, peace of mind, security, you know, the wherewithal to reach for things that actually cost money. I mean, you know, to have experiences that, you know, I mean, the world is a big, beautiful place, but it’s not free. Even just to go to other parts of it, it doesn’t cost anything to stand in another part of the world and look at that ocean or look at that mountain, but it costs money to get there.
Mindie: Right. Good point.
Michael: Right? So, there’s a lot of things in the world that are free, but even moving around requires resources. You know, and look, in many respects, and I forget who said it, I will always credit it, but if I can remember, but you know, wealth in many respects, is loving what you have and I actually think that loving what you have gives you more ability to create more. When you’re dissatisfied with what you have, and I think there’s something called like a healthy disk. This is like a healthy, you know, restlessness, I think, right? And you know, healthy restlessness maybe is a decent definition of the word ambition, right? I think it can be healthy to say, “I love what I have, and now this is my new game and I’m committed to this new level of whatever.”. But you know, in many respects, wealth, and happiness, I think are related, you know, to marry two words that you asked me about. So, you know, wealth is financial wherewithal, its wealth of relationships, and it’s also the full cup that you have in relationship to yourself; that’s how I would say it right now, later or tomorrow, it might be different.
Mindie: Well, I think that’s fantastic. You know, especially in that when you were talking about the ambition, and coming from a place of joy about that, or happiness or fulfillment within that, you know, if there wasn’t that further, looking ahead, there would be no growth. You know, it’s yes, being happy with what we have now, but also choosing to get uncomfortable again, and go into that growth stage. So, I really appreciate that.
Michael: Yeah, well, and I never said the term healthy restlessness before, but I actually kind of like it.
Mindie: I kind of do, too. I think it’s good. So, Michael, you have been and are tremendously helpful to me, you were to Sean, just in our business sense. You’re a brilliant guy in branding and marketing, and just the way you think about things. So, I would love to have my audience get to know you more, if they wanted to do that, and they were interested in in what you’re up to, where would you like them to go? Where would you like to send them?
Michael: Yeah. Well, thank you for a wonderful question. Well, what you know, whether they’re listening now, or 20 years from now, you know, I’m sure, you know, my websites, MichaelFishmanConsulting.com, and for my invitational community, my founder community is ConsumerHealthSummit.com, you know, Twitter and Facebook, I mean, I’m pretty easy to find, and I’m very responsive. So, those would be the two best places to have a look
Mindie: Perfect. And for the listener, all those links will be available at Lucra.com in the transcript, so you can just go there for easy access to Michael Fishman. Michael, I just want to thank you for not only your time right now, but just your friendship over the many, many, many years. You were one of the first Sean’s friends that I met a long time ago, we ended up traveling sort of together a long time, like really early on in our relationship, and you’ve always just been a great blessing and you know, a true shoulder to lean on and just like an ear to listen. So, I just want to send appreciation your way, and most especially for this time today.
Michael: Well, look, it’s always been, not only my pleasure and my honor, but a gift to me to you know, for our friendship and just the ability to be have any degree of support. So, it always has been and always will be an honor, and this was a fun, super cool visit. So, thank you.
Mindie: You’re welcome.
Michael’s Recommended Books: